what happened to the 20mm pak.

[advarntek]

I remember in other versions of kmod you could make a fast firing 20mm pak gun. It was my favourite gun I was wondering what happened to it.[biggun]

[Kyranzor]

well, it was a horrible and strange attempt by me to make a 20mm anti infantry gun.. it didnt work.. lol. i suppose it was alright, but overall i decided it was best to remove it.

sorry man.

[whitewolfmxc]

well didnt they have small flak cannons as anti infentry guns ? like in saving prviate ryan ?

[messenger]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
You can't use bloody Private Ryan as a historical source!
Flak cannons are used against Aircraft and occasionally infantry if they had no aircraft to shoot, the Germans had MG34's and 42's for killing infantry for the most part.

[Orrie]

Ur right Msg'r

Ostwind is an 1337 infantery killer, but it is obversely that it was designed to take out Airplanes :D xD

[Kyranzor]

haha no messenger, the single barrelled 20mm anti infantry HMG is real.

it looks like a mini pak, but has a single barrel of the flak 20mm quad cannon..

[whitewolfmxc]

haha no messenger, the single barrelled 20mm anti infantry HMG is real.

it looks like a mini pak, but has a single barrel of the flak 20mm quad cannon..

HA HA ( the kid from simpson)

On topic: so are you going to add it then ???

[messenger]

haha no messenger, the single barrelled 20mm anti infantry HMG is real.

it looks like a mini pak, but has a single barrel of the flak 20mm quad cannon..

I demand locations times and names!

[LtSoucy]

Ya its true and nice and fun! The gun could fire over 200 rounds of 20mm ammo in 1 minuite. After Normandy it got very little use due to they were all being killed by Bombss tanks and PATTON!

[messenger]

Hey wait a minute, I think I know what your talking about, if it is what I am thinking then that is an AA gun you fools.

[advarntek]

if you mwan the 4 barrel anti air gun i mean the 1 barrel 20mm pak gun

[messenger]

Yeah I know what you mean I think, it looks kinda like a Bofors.

[Kyranzor]

no, watch saving private ryan and see the wheeled single barrel HMG with a ballistic shield on it shoot the yanks off a panzer, as they try to throw nades in it. the yanks get torn up by this mobile autocannon.

[advarntek]

http://www.axishistory.com/fileadmin/user_upload/p/pak40-kursk.jpg it is one of these only with a 20mm barrel

[messenger]

Sounds alot like a 2cm AA gun to me.

[supahpingi]

ladies and gentlemen wheve gotr him(i found it)









http://www.omaha-beach.org/The%20Beach/20mm.jpg
this has to be it if im not right(if im wrong go find urself)
it only has no shield but that doesnt matter(i hope)

and this is the aa version: http://www.45thdivision.org/Veterans/Wims157/20mmAAQuad.jpg

[advarntek]

no sorry u are wrong i was a single fire shell at pak gun also i don't care if you thought it was crap kyranzor please put it back in if not can you send me the files you used please:)

[messenger]

Those are all AA guns...the Germans used the MG34 and MG42's as MG's.

[advarntek]

yes but they all use a mag or belt to hlod the amunition. where as the one in kmod is loaded like a normal 50mm pak with a single shell from the back of the gun.

[Kyranzor]

this has to be it if im not right(if im wrong go find urself)
it only has no shield but that doesnt matter(i hope)

yep thats it supahpingi. that is the lil mobile single barreled autocannon! nice work.

advarntek, all i did was make the thing un-buildable, the files are still in the KMOD folders. if you know how to use the Corsix mod tools then you can make it buildable yourself, by adding the sbps unit name of the 20mm anti infantry gun into the spawner_ext of the building you want it buildable from!

[supahpingi]

i would like to see the 20mm in kmod myself that wy i searched xd

[advarntek]

advarntek, all i did was make the thing un-buildable, the files are still in the KMOD folders. if you know how to use the Corsix mod tools then you can make it buildable yourself, by adding the sbps unit name of the 20mm anti infantry gun into the spawner_ext of the building you want it buildable from!

ye im on it know

wahoo i added it and played it it is fantastic with the kmod 1.39f.

[FiffA]

The German Vierling is the best anti inf. at the moment in KMOD, the MG42 has been improved now but i still see the Vierling rape more flesh than the Maschinengewehr 42 :D

Just want to share a picture of the MG42
http://www.reenactor.net/units/gjr98/Images/waffen/42.jpg
Enjoy... :)

[LtSoucy]

Guys its not a AA gun, its not a At gun, ITS A ANTI-INF. GUN. Watch SPR and u will see it they kill its crew with a BAR, thompson, and a M1. Can someone please get a pic of it from the movie and put it on here so we can see it and all get on same page.:)

[Pvt.Jonez]

24

From http://www.sproe.com/f/flak38.html

A modification of the Flak (Flugabwehrkanone) 30 anti-aircraft cannon, the 20mm Flak 38 featured a higher rate of fire that was needed to take into account the increasing speed of aircraft. Although the Flak 30 had been produced by Rheinmetall-Borsig, the Flak 38 was manufactured by Mauser.

The Flak 38 entered service in late 1940 and was the most common light anti-aircraft cannon used by the German army, navy and air force. The Sonderanhanger 51 trailer was used to tow the Flak 38. In order to increase firepower, a four-barrelled version, the Flakvierling 38, was also created.

[messenger]

As I said, an AA gun. Most AA guns work fine against infantry, just they aren't really meant for that use.

[LtSoucy]

thankyou Jonez! Now guys look if we do get this back in we would have to give the US something right. Because these rounds must beable to go through a wall of something right.

[advarntek]

if you mean the round of the 20mm yes it takes out buildings, tanks, inf, anything.

[whitewolfmxc]

As I said, an AA gun. Most AA guns work fine against infantry, just they aren't really meant for that use.


did anyone use the flak 88 for tanks and artiary beforer rommel ? arg.......no......

[Cap'n Rommel]

did anyone use the flak 88 for tanks and artiary beforer rommel ? arg.......no......

Good point.. Messenger, dont just dismiss the possibilities of ussing an AA as AI.. just because of the name. Many things in that war was used for something else than they were meant for. Both allied and Axis soldiers were very creative.

And dont judge people about using SpR as a historical source.. the things happend in the movie may not be real.. but most equipment and such was indeed very real.



Side Note: Me first post! weee

[noobishpro]

Hey advarntek, by your description i think you mean the 37mm pak 36 gun. Just go to Wikipedia or Google and search pak 36, see if thats the one u mean. Anyway this one is not rapid firing.

[messenger]

I am fully aware that people were resourceful, however they wouldn't have used the 20mm that often as AI as it was a) not that common later war b) usually came in fours on a Vierling and c) Saving Private Ryan is not historical.
20mm's are the guns on the Flak platforms, so they are usable against infantry however they can't exactly recline all that far and they are better served blowing aircraft up.

[Cap'n Rommel]

I am fully aware that people were resourceful, however they wouldn't have used the 20mm that often as AI as it was a) not that common later war

Might not be, but that doesnt mean it wasnt used...


b) usually came in fours on a Vierling

In later war correct, but there were still thousands af FlaK 38 2cm in use at various German panzer groups and infantry groups.

and c) Saving Private Ryan is not historical.

it might be partly fictious, but that doesnt mean you can dismiss anything happening in it... if it wasnt historical, why do they run around with Thompsons and Garands, Schmiessers and K98 ? ( I now Im a bit far out, but the point is the same)


20mm's are the guns on the Flak platforms, so they are usable against infantry however they can't exactly recline all that far and they are better served blowing aircraft up.

I admit they were good at blowing up aircrafts early war.. but there where a reason why they made the Vierling : The FlaK 38 2cm was insufficient.

http://www.sproe.com/images/screenshots/flak38-02-large.jpg

I know its from SpR, but it is real gun they used (although it was deactivated)

and you can clearly see that it can be used as AI... besides that, Im pretty sure there where nummerious German and Allied soldiers who have talked about using it as AI... or being shot at by it...

[supahpingi]

the germans would use it against infantry,cause wat would you do as a german officer,let the allies win and leave the gun where he is as an aa,or use it to be victorius as an ai.
think about it!

[advarntek]

the one that WAS in kmod and the one that i have just added i dont think ever exsisted in WW2 it is the same as the pak 38 in game only the crew are on steroids they reaload the thing in about 1 sec.

edit: but it is still my best weapon ever in coh and any mod.

[whitewolfmxc]

so we will add the "correct" one then XD no worries mate XD

[Cap'n Rommel]

you're gona include it? Grrreat!

[advarntek]

here is a short video of the gun that was in kmod it shows what it looks like and just how fast it fires. http://advarntekpayways.info/20mm pak gun.zip (http://advarntekpayways.info/20mm pak gun.zip)

[Kyranzor]

yeah, you can see that in v1.3.06 and any version before that, such as v1.29 for KMOD. it was alright, not many people used it. but it was funny anyways. it's just a light cannon for killing troopers.

[Cap'n Rommel]

but if someone strives for realism (which some guys in here does) it might not be a good idea to included that exact same gun... it looks a bit silly

[Kyranzor]

exactly. which is why i got rid of it - it looked silly... a Pak38 shooting like crazy is NOT a single barrelled 20mm AA gun aimed at ground level :D

[messenger]

Ja those sorts of guns aren't fully auto.

[advarntek]

seeing as you are not going to use do you mind if i add it to my mod. i will give credit to you of corse

[FiffA]

We want to add as many vehicle`s as possible :D
It adds a bit more realism and makes KMOD even more fun (makes play time higher)

[Kyranzor]

yes advarntek, you can use it. remember you need the weapon file, squad file, and entity file :D

[advarntek]

yes advarntek, you can use it. remember you need the weapon file, squad file, and entity file
Yes!! Thanks Kyranzor.

[messenger]

We want to add as many vehicle`s as possible :D
It adds a bit more realism and makes KMOD even more fun (makes play time higher)

Just as well we aren't adding it then as it is none of those ;).

[LtSoucy]

c) Saving Private Ryan is not historical.
Hey and so u do understand ths It IS REAL. that BAttle did happen and everything did happen. Its about the story of the Sullivan brothers(5 brothers killed in Pacific on 1 ship) All he did was take that and put iit in D-day and make them airbourne. IF U GOT THE DVD U WOULD KNOW THAT SO SPLEASE ZIP THE LIP BECAUSE IAM MAKING A MAP WITH SOME OF THE MOVIES SCEENS IN IT. So TO BAD!

[Cap'n Rommel]

Hey and so u do understand ths It IS REAL. that BAttle did happen and everything did happen. Its about the story of the Sullivan brothers(5 brothers killed in Pacific on 1 ship) All he did was take that and put iit in D-day and make them airbourne. IF U GOT THE DVD U WOULD KNOW THAT SO SPLEASE ZIP THE LIP BECAUSE IAM MAKING A MAP WITH SOME OF THE MOVIES SCEENS IN IT. So TO BAD!

Chillax mate

but I concur

[messenger]

Hey and so u do understand ths It IS REAL. that BAttle did happen and everything did happen. Its about the story of the Sullivan brothers(5 brothers killed in Pacific on 1 ship) All he did was take that and put iit in D-day and make them airbourne. IF U GOT THE DVD U WOULD KNOW THAT SO SPLEASE ZIP THE LIP BECAUSE IAM MAKING A MAP WITH SOME OF THE MOVIES SCEENS IN IT. So TO BAD!

No my friend, Saving Private Ryan is infact not real, it is a movie, Tom Hanks is an actor and so is Matt Damon, sorry to break your world.
Also how can it be historical if they were in the pacific not D-day hmm?

[Cap'n Rommel]

No my friend, Saving Private Ryan is infact not real, it is a movie, Tom Hanks is an actor and so is Matt Damon, sorry to break your world.
Also how can it be historical if they were in the pacific not D-day hmm?

you're pretty litteral arent you? you know what he mean.. He know its a movie... but it's loosely based on a real battle (the village battle, and the beach) the side story (Saving Ryan (which is loosely based on the story about the sulivan brothers.) Dont think he is stupid.. that's just low.

[advarntek]

i don't get this thread is about what happended to the 20mm and somehow it has got onto Saving Ryan

[whitewolfmxc]

advarntek is right , stay on topic and NO FLAMMING XD or ill lock post XD

PS: saving privite ryan is easy to be said as a non accurate historical event WW2 movie, but doesnt mean things like that dont happen in real life nor it didnt happen who knows ???, also it doesnt mean the stuff they used wasnt real.........the movie did its own research , but sometimes its just hard to use / get what the real thing back then as most are scrapt metal by now.......

[messenger]

Nobody said that it was all unreal however some people seem to think Saving Private Ryan is the holy bible of WW2 fact and seem to think everything on it happened....

[Cap'n Rommel]

but back to the topic:

I believe the 2 cm AA/AI gun would make a fine addition to the mod, maybe as a weapon team? (expensive, that is)

[Pvt.Jonez]

I say (once we get models) to add a mounted 2cm flack on a trailer, like on spr, and also we need to reduce the price of the 38mm flacks on the game. 88s cost about the same???

Just my opnion, but it think the stationary Flak 38s in the game are way too expencive.

[messenger]

Why do we need a 2cm flack trailer, it fires like 1 shell a second, hardly automatic.
What would be much better would be a Panzer II with its faster firing 2cm cannon.
Perhaps if we eventually have early war armies then this would be an awesome addition as I doubt many units even had 2cm flaks that weren't Vierlings by then.

[Pvt.Jonez]

Once again, it would add more to the game, and hell, what about if you didnt bloody want a panzer II? I think it would be a useful addidion to the game for two reasons

1. As Messanger stated, you could just buy a pz II (or 1 for that matter) But this would be far cheaper, as well as it could manuver into smaller places, as well as it could be Camouflaged.

2. In addition to puting it on a trailer, which perhaps you could tow it(well we can wish) Both sides dont have any inexpencive AA units, and this may be the answer. It would only cost a bit more than a halftrack.

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/3620/sws_flak.jpg

[Jason Baane]

This weapon (20mm FlaK 38 L / 112.5) was designed for anti-aircraft fire and was rarely used purely as a desperation measure as a tactically mobile weapon against ground targets.

By the logic presented by the people in this thread, Tanks should be able to main-gun aircraft since that was practiced in combat. Frankly, it's such an infinitesimal factor that the Germans will hardly feel the burn if they don't have it. This use of the weapon is only known on the scale that it is because of the fantasy battle at Rammel in the closing scenes of Saving Private Ryan. There are more important and meaningful weapon systems that can be written into the game.

[Kyranzor]

exactly. which is why the puppchen comes first muahahaha wiki the puppchen guys its funny shit

[messenger]

Thank you Jason for backing me up.
I suspect most of these lighter older weapons were used in the initial attacks on the eastern front which probably absorbed alot of old weapons quite quickly.

[Dietrich]

Check out "Use of 20-mm AA/AT Gun Against Ground Targets" from Intelligence Bulletin, February 1943 (http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/use20mm/index.html).

As far as Saving Private Ryan goes, the use of the 20mm FlaK 38 L/112.5 was unrealistic, not because the Germans didn't use AA guns against infantry, but because they would not have risked such a valuable weapon by deploying it that way in an urban battle. Had that been an actual battle, instead of wheeling that little FlaK gun onto that alley embankment, they would have just brought to bear a bipod-mounted MG-42 (or two)--higher-rate of fire, more mobile, and more available.

Besides, in that scene the Germans are shown doing almost everything wrong. No fire-and-movement tactics. No deploying MG-42s. The "Tiger" doesn't fire its coaxial MG, nor its bow MG when what's-his-bucket runs right in front of it. Et cetera ad nauseam.

My point, though, is just that the heroes of the movie (Miller, Ryan, etc.) are supposed to be shown fighting heroically, right? But their heroism gets undermined when the relative ineptitude of their opponents becomes clear. And it's not like the German troops in that scene were boys-and-old-men Volksgrenadiers. Right after they bazooka that halftrack before the Ramelle battle, one of the Airborne guys says the German troops nearby are from the 2nd SS Division (Das Reich)...in other words, bad-ass Ostfront veterans(!) (Calming down now.... :P)

As a mobile AA/anti-infantry unit, the Ostwind does fine. As a static AA/anti-infantry unit, the Flakvierling does fine. A mobile single-barrel 20mm Flak (on a wheeled split-trail mount like a PaK 38) would be cool, so long as it's possible to model it.